Comments (MIL-Downed In Austria-5)
Some changes to section - name change to cover entire crew, not only Orian; each had to deal with a lot. Some
editing and organization changes.
Psychic or Paranormal Component
Intuitive-Psychic Type Phenomena: Goosebumps, images, feelings, feeling-knowings, some auditory, healing
energy wants to kick in.
Several of the resources below were accompanied by strong goosebumps. Some of the subjects at first seemed
unlikely for that type of response. For example, the article on Belgium females helping downed Allied air crews
out of Belgium at least at first glance does not seem to relate directly to Austria, although the subject of dowed
airmen and planes certainly does.. However, it brings some of the strongest goosebumps of all. Coming to
information on a nuclear plant near Orian’s downed crash site (within 40 miles or so) brought another type of
Summary of “stuckness” after physical body death - possibilities, ideas
geographic energy fields - ie electromagnetic
energy in/exposure to rocks like in mining caves
might hold other spirits near earth plane
group collective with unfinished business, tragedy
Unfinished business, was in middle of something
State of Mind
fear of sin, Devil, etc.
Disenchantment with hope for “something more” - atheism, mediocrity
This Memorial is about Orian Wynn, a World War 2 bombardier who at first was listed as Missing in Action, but
whose body was apparently found and buried in an American commissioned cemetery in northern France near
the German border. That is, after a likely local burial in the Steyr region of Austria, he was apparently re-interred
at Lorraine Cemetery of the historic city of St. Avold.
Although it seems possible he was re-interred after the war was over, we need to consider whether the bombing
of the chapel and the city itself had any impact on burial processes, including re-internments of Americans and
any other Allieds. I have received phenomena on both bombings f the cemetery and chapel grounds and of St.
Avold itself in the late 1944 time period of November and December, most likely, from materials found on the
subject. We need to ask if the American presence as a military campaign somehow was related to American
burials from other regions like Austria.
An off-topic question I would ask if any Americans went to St. Avold and the chapel to be married, as it came up
intuitively as a possibility.
We can agree on the likely physical evidence or testimonials which suggest to us what happened to Orian.
Engines hit by German plane-shot bombs (referred to as rockets) or gunfire or ground-based flak; fires started
by rockets on impact or later inside the plane,or plane fuel being hit; a wing being hit causing a plane to lose
balance and its ability to stay afloat on gaseous air; equipment failing; a plane turning upside down and/or
swirling around and around creating centrifugal force and thus human-knock-outs; a belly up plane making it
hard for remaining crew to bail out with parachutes because the escape hatch is on the wrong side; perhaps
being caught on fire with inadequate ways to stop it given the chaos of the plane; perhaps more than one type
of attack against the plane; uncertainty about how many bail, how many perish in the air with the plane, how
many might have fallen out of the plane as it broke up, whether all parachutes worked, whether any parachuters
landed in the plane’s fire or were hit in the air by Germans or attacked by them or their collaborators on the
ground after they landed.
However, there is a deeper component, that of the nature of existence and our souls. Is there some aspect of
ourselves which survives death? Is it a soul.
The main point considered here is what happens to the existence of the being we have known by a name or a
physical body, or by a personality, or a race or gender, or by a set of characteristics, or by a talent, skill or
academic success, or a job description or work(s) created, or by a bad deed(s) or good one(s)?
Considering there is a soul or core aspect of the beingness of the person in question, what happen to it after
death of the physical form, often referred to as an organic one here.
If we seem to be encountering that being in our studies such as this, why is it still there, and not moved on, or
does it come and go?
My suspicion is that some beings do get stuck in time and space for a variety of reasons, as students of ghosts
have suggested,and it could happen to any of us. I feel one reason is trauma that not only impacts the organic
form, but also the etheric body or aspect. I also feel that state of mind or the fixation of thoughts or beliefs, or
the string of thoughts near the time of death, can impact all of this stuckness. In this case, what we believe, we
become, or we create or manifest. I have suspected the old “wild west” mining
Beyond this, I suspect that certain magnetic fields in the earth crust, or certain types of rocks, minerals or
otherwise earth elements, or other electromagnetic waves, could cause an etheric body to be stuck. I had
started to wonder about mining operations in this regard, not only location in the mountains inside caves or
other mining places, but also elements miners came in contact with. This could lead to larger than normal
hauntings in certain mining towns, with similar characteristics across them in various locations.
Unfinished business, or the sense that one’s tragedy was not made known to the world or family, concerns that
something was in process afoot and was squelched in the sense it did not did not get out to the public --
concerns about family not ever hearing of their loved one’s whereabouts - all of this could lead to staying around
after organic death. Sometimes it is the feeling of foulness in the set of systems that lead to their death - like
the military or government was doing something wrong, or colleagues lied or covered up, or otherwise provided
incomplete, inadequate or distorted testimonies, or a piece of the story got lost.
I also felt for some time that Christian religious fundamentalism could lead to stuckness if taken too far as a type
of fixation or a dark/light
Goosebumps continue see also 9/16/2022 cont. Goosebumps List
Side Note for later comment, just listing this for now:
Very strong goosebumps on arriving at, and starting to read through, this early this morning just before writing
this comment: I was doing more research on St. Avold/Lorraine area chapel bombing in late WW2. The name
“Wynn” showed up as a typo between 80th and vision in division below - anything to it? Is Wynn trying to tell
us something is up with this issue? I have been working on trying to find out when Wynn was re-interred at St.
Avold’s Lorraine Cemetery and what was the condition of his body upon reburial, like was it intact, burned,
showing sings of trauma to skull, bullet wounds, etc. even if head already decayed or started to by that time. I
was also trying to find out which group was responsible for his re-internment, and whether there were any lists
or notes on it, and why Lorraine was chosen for someone buried first in Au stria.
80th DIvision dot com
Return to earlier psychic impression concerns
I gave some earlier visions some distance, and am now ready to get back to discussing the issues around the
Some unsettling psychic or psychic-like impressions presented themselves early on about Orian or someone in
his crew or range of contacts. While right in the middle of it, I was having a hard time getting clear and felt an
uneasy feeling my suspicions were unfairly tarnishing Orian’s otherwise fairly normal bombardier approach.
In retrospect, my decision to back off was correct, but not early enough to have stopped from voicing the
concerns to a few others. I could have left one or more of those with a bad notion about myself and any psychic
abilities first, and perhaps with tentative feelings about Orian’s integrity second.
For people without psychic awareness, the world of the psychic is suspect at best and likely the realm of fakes or
those who are self-deceptive.
To the people with psychic ability (or who are open to the subject), the situation can still be fuzzy when you
don’t know the person professing to have psychic impressions.
I don’t blame the suspicions or doubts. I would have them too if and when someone talks about psychic
We can choose to not talk about it, or to bravely go forward about it. I knew from the beginning in dealing with
the story, the psychic thing was a critical part of it for me personally.
My first impression was Orian was either involved in a fire or hostile contact with a German on the ground after
the plane crashed or after he landed by chute. Impressions that first came up with the German contact caused
me to wondered if Orian had been cooperating with Axis powers.
After giving the impressions some distance and reading over Orian’s letters to his family, I have decided my
suspicions were likely unfounded.
However, knowing my own psychic ability as I do, given years of multiple validations , I suspect something is up
with the impressions, even if they are not in connected to Orian directly.
The first place I would look is at the German himself. I got an unusually strong psychic impression of his ruthless
and aggressive energy and disposition, even character, but no other identifying details. He felt potentially to be
a German military male or Austrian local with German tendencies, maybe a Nazi was the first impression, upon
reflection, he might have been a local with a strong German-like imprint in his energy and demeanor.
Have a professional psychic or remote viewer sense the energy and situation around the incident of contact
follow the energy back from him to his own range of contacts. One would likely have to do that on a psychic
level without knowing the German’s name or which troop he was in, or where he was stationed, unless records
exist otherwise. Could the German have known someone among the Allied crews flying over Austria who was
an operative of some kind? In addition, could downed crews have become operatives through extortion or
other forms of bullying?
Secondly, I would consider if the impressions connect with one of Orian’s range of contacts, either in his crew or
squadron flying that day. This would include Italy and USA.
Could someone in his group have been a spy working for the Axis powers? If so, who would be the most likely
Without direct information, I think our best bet is to consider the possibility such things could have occurred,
and how they might have happened, whether in Orian’s field of associations or not. I think we need to be on
alert about this, because it came up for a reason. That’s how I would handle it - and we can ask how someone
like Orian, if not Orian himself, might have gotten caught up working for the Axis powers. I think that is the
most important lesson for me personally to be derived from this, not tarnishing Orian unfairly without enough
evidence, or without better quality psychic input, but to leave open the possibility of operatives in general in
some way or another).
Two things came up for me on this operative business, and how:
Italian contacts and contexts with Allieds interacting with Italian locals when off duty; we also might check for
Red Cross operatives hooking up locals with Allied military men
A network of connections back in the United States through local business, business dealings with Mexico,
Catholics and Los Alamos bomb project persons, some of whom might have been out-of-state (non-residents)
and internationals (like former Italian scientists) The Axis nexus could be Italian and Spanish priests and
scientists, Hispanic ties with Spain, smuggling operations or sideline profits linked to Mexico and tribal-Hispanic
ties in turns linked to Catholics, Hispanics and Mexico. That old surreptitious link to Mexico has always been
around, I suspect, and smuggling or sideline profits can have always included things like weapons or lower cost
goods capable of being marked up in the American market.
In this conjecture, we are of course remembering Spain and Italy were linked to the Nazis in World War 2.
Although not all Catholics would have been supporting Hitler of course, there has always been a darker side to
Catholicism linking sexual abusers, politics and money. In addition, there is an odd continuum between
Catholicism and socialism which could wind itself into fascism of the sort found in Italy, Germany and possibly
Spain, although Spain and Italy were doing different things with their authoritarian approaches and leadership.
Old strains of the Italian Mafia and dark strains of Italian Catholicism could have been based in New Mexico even
in the 1940s, but more research would be need to prove that. Old Spain’s hierarchical systems has never really
left either New Mexico or Old Mexico. These cultural tendencies can wind in and out of various political
approaches which are antagonistic to western style Democracy, including that of
this could be one way Axis powers got into the American system to create operatives that through family and/or
business contacts, could lead back to the military forces overseas. For example, a trading post linking the tribal,
Catholic and Hispanic/Mexican worlds might have some business dealings either directly with Axis powers or in
such a way it benefits them. Why an American would do something like that might be strictly because of
economics, or there could be an old fairly hidden political association to it. Native American groups antagonistic
to the United States have often cooperated with America’s enemies, and even though the Germans were bigots,
the Spanish connection as well as money might have encouraged a line of connection to the Axis powers there.
These are just speculations at this point.
Italian contacts with Americans could have had various side-effects, some of which could lead to personal
relationships and others tha might lead to snagging Americans into Italian ties with Hitler. There could have
been spies among the Italians who gave messages to Germans or other cohorts in Austria or other nearby
German strongholds. Whether they could figure things out from Americans by their habits or patterns (like
from having their laundry done, etc.) is hard to say but we should consider the possibility. Whether Americans
were having a harder time with Austrian locals and Germans in Austria because of something the Italians were
doing is hard to say at this point without further reading and research, but it comes up as a possibility.
Allieds and USA during World War 2. It’s a process at once socialistic yet authoritarian, conducive to supporting
rogue groups like Lither and best seen as supporting cartels in today’s world. Whether supporting Hitler or
cartels, there is that defiance to western world, newer age practices.
Whether any or all of these parts came together in a synchronized or variegated whole,
There has been phenomena showing up while researching what happened to Orian Wynn.
The two most pronounced are goosebumps and a sense of fire around either Orian or his crew. Secondly is
energy residue from a military feeling German or Austrian with a feeling of German military in his demeanor. I
read from pilot Albert Zuidema’s letter shortly after the crash after he returned home from being a POW there
was a fire after a rocket hit, but did not find concrete indications of whether anyone burned from it. There
might have been burning wreckage, but I have not read specifically whether anyone burned.
Goosebumps come up when I come to a website page on a person or topic.
At first, I was listing when and over who or what it came up. Then I stopped. Yesterday, I decided to make note
of it again, as yesterday was a strong day for goosebumps across different people and topics or websites.
At first two, then three scenarios came up as possible for Orian or his crew, based on intuitive feelings.
!) standing up in the plane trying to deal with the crisis after the rocket attack, perhaps trying to stop the fire or
get controls to work. This would be before the plane flipped belly up
2) Possible fire of someone burning to death, or of the spirit linked to the fire leaving a residue energy of some
kind; for some reason, I get to see/feel the fire burning things to a crisp and it shows up and is felt even when I
am not directly working on this memorial - this is what I mean by a residue energy on it
3) possibly Orian or another crew member walking around injured after the crash or being parachuted down,
having an interaction exchange with a German military person or similarly feeling local Austrian collaborative; I
sense possible middle torso soft organ internal injuries, at the least.
We are missing some testimonies possible from other crew members like the copilot who became a POW.
Whereas at first there was a connection to Orian’s story since the time of childhood, it was always more distant -
just a feeling of resonance, a wondering and sadness, and a sense of mystery.
However, upon reading his letters and that of others, and going over the few remaining documents and photos
on him and around his situation, I have developed an unusually strong concern for his plight. I feel this concern
could interfere with proper psychic viewing so that it does not stay clear long enough to see what happened to
him. I feel I have a bias, in other words, preventing objective psychic viewing. I feel other better qualified
psychics and remote viewers should look into this as I am too charged by the subject.
Other Goosebumps List
continued and restarted from an earlier discussion on this phenomena
August 22, 2022 had goosebumps come up on this when I came to this website. I take it that this
site or exploratory/investigative trek has some value for Orian T. Wynn. Perhaps the goosebumps are a
link to him directly.
Warfare History Network
Americans returning from German POW camps suffered from PTSD. By Duane Schultz
COMMEMORATIVE WW2 STUDY OF AN APRIL 2, 1944 DOWNED US
ARMY AIR FORCES B17 PLANE ANDC CREW IN THE AUSTRIAN STEYR
Psychic or Paranormal Component
Some Sources with Goosebumps showing up
Resources and Input
Policing, Borders, Drugs, Cartels
and System Corruption